New Transcripts at the NCSML

Voucher for buying goods at Tuzex stores in Czechoslovakia

More oral histories have been transcribed as part of Recording Voices & Documenting Memories. Full transcripts are available to researchers upon request at the National Czech & Slovak Museum & Library.

In this excerpt from an interview with Dasa Kozakova, she remembers shopping - and the shortage of goods - in Czechoslovakia during the 1970s and 1980s:

"There wasn’t toilet paper. So my father-in-law was forever sitting and cutting newspapers into little squares. Really! There just wasn’t paper... And, for example, onions - all of a sudden for four months there weren’t any onions. And it is difficult to cook Czech food without onions. Czech food has lots of sauces and their base is an onion.
 
"I would always pull up at a store with the kids in a pram and ask what was on sale. Then we would stand in the queue and buy as much of it as we could, because we gave it then to my parents and my mother-in-law too, so that everybody had. And that was it, quite simply - the constant struggle for ordinary things. Then, when I went to work (I worked at Albertov),  there was a little store, and I had to go there at noon to buy bread. Because if I went when I finished work at 3:30, there wasn’t any more. So, there were all of these nonsensical things. In the end, everyone had bread, but with such difficulty! 

"When the boys had just started at primary school, my son sat beside a greengrocer’s son. And the greengrocer’s son was always bringing in oranges or apples – these sorts of things – and my son never had them, because I wasn’t capable of finding them. I went into the grocery store and there were potatoes, maybe carrots. There just weren’t these sorts of things. And so I, even though I didn’t like it, after about half a year of my son saying ‘I want an orange too!’ I said ‘You can’t have one! Oranges are for Christmas!’ – because all of a sudden there were oranges then. Everyone could buy two kilos. They were Cuban, they were ugly – they were good, but they were ugly. They didn’t look good, but they were juicy. So I went to the greengrocer, the kid’s father, and asked him either to stop giving his son this fruit, or to give it to mine too!"

..."Meat was also impossible to find. There was always beef brisket. And if you were lucky there was shank or ribs. But we never saw sirloin. We never saw that sort of meat. You just couldn’t get it, not even in restaurants. I don’t know. You couldn’t find rump steak. Ham? I don’t know where that disappeared. Because again, all you could get was pork belly, you know. So belly and pork brisket you could get. And always on Monday the butcher’s was closed. And so for meat on Tuesday there were queues from first thing. My mother-in-law, she still came from that old school and she still cooked and so she always stood in these queues so as to buy fake tenderloin or something of the sort. So meat was also a big problem. Finding bacon? And ham? Not possible! For a normal person, that is, who didn’t have any connections…"

How were the stores back then? 

"Everybody went about with a string bag. This was a type of bag which looks quite modern – maybe not now but a couple of years ago this bag reappeared. So everyone had a string bag, and when someone by chance saw something available, they bought it!"

More Political Prisoner Transcripts In

For the past couple of months, intern Cecilia Greco has been transcribing interviews that the National Czech & Slovak Museum & Library recorded with former political prisoners. In the second transcript in this series, Czech-American Robert Budway (who was imprisoned on a visit back to Czechoslovakia in 1962) remembers the way that his childhood in Bohemia was affected by the onset of WWII:

Robert Budway in his hometown of Těchonice, circa 1935

"When the disintegration of Czechoslovakia began, I was 10 years old. I was not really even 10 years old. I lived it intensively; I believed at 10 years old, I realized the gravity of what was happening. So by the time the country totally ceased to exist, I was 11. Then when I went to high school, I could not change down deep in my heart and mind that what I have learned in those first formative years in that grade school in that little village of Těchonice to love the Czech scene; Czech nation; Czech history; Czech everything. It was difficult to come to terms that I must repeat things I didn't believe. And I also was a little shocked because most teachers I encountered in my experience in the First Czechoslovak Republic, the Second Czechoslovak Republic... I think were very decent people who were doing their best to educate the young people in the spirit of Czechoslovak ideas. However, there were a few who did not, and I had difficulty with that. I would rebel in my usual way, even pretend. When they asked a question, let's say pertaining to German geography – and I was a geography buff – I would immediately declare loud and clear, 'I do not know.' And everybody in the classroom knew that I knew. It was daring at that particular time to even answer to a teacher, 'I don't know.' If you didn't know, you would look down and be silent. But that was also considered my American or rebellious way, I did not know. Even the teacher sensed that I must have known because after all, he did give me the best grade in geography. And yet I answered his question on examinations – many times when I didn't like the question, 'I don't know.'"

You said that in school you would have to repeat things you didn't believe... What sorts of things? I know that you were talking a lot about Germany, but what in particular?

"Right. First of all, the spirit of education at that particular time was suddenly [that the] German language was the language you learn; German besides Czech. Then there was an emphasis on a 'Future Europe,' a so-called Neuordnung Europas – that is, in German, a new order in Europe.  That was all around. To listen to the news and declarations of loyalty to German leadership, that was definitely something that was very hard to swallow. For somebody whose heroes were [Tomáš Garrigue] Masaryk, [Edvard] Beneš, and [Milan] Štefánik. So that was the thing. For example, we had to also do recycling. [We collected] scraps and all sorts of things. That was something I rebelled against, because I had to meet certain quotas. In high school you had to deliver so much and so much, I no longer can tell you, but let's say 10kg of scrap. Or you have an option; you can do it [by bringing] some metal, that means one object will do. Or you can collect papers and other things, which would take you quite a lot of time to do. So one time I went to do a shortcut, so I was caught taking some of my mother's cooking pots. And when she realized this is what I wanted to do, she said, 'You little fool' – I want to repeat the name she called me – 'Do you know that your uncles and your father may be in America's army? And they are going to produce bullets out of this thing... You are actually going to contribute to the killing of your own compatriots, of your American relatives, who must for sure be in the army!' Certainly it was a cold shower for me. I dropped it, and then had to collect what in Czech is called byliny, which is collecting herbs. And that took me weeks and weeks because I had to dry it, I had to find some bag to put it in, drag it up to the high school – and I walked two hours to high school. So obviously it would have been much easier to pick up one pot and I'd meet my quota. 

"This was quite an experience which made me aware again that I do have somebody in the United States, and there is a war going on. And I was contributing unknowingly, unwillingly to [something like this]. These were the types of things I really objected to. And everything that was German was always bigger, and that also aggravated me. Even though I must admit, certain things certainly were quite interesting. I did not reject learning something about Mozart, Schiller, and Goethe. I did not object to seeing a German movie; they fascinated me, most of them were for kids. But then I was nothing but 14 years old. But I do know that Czech movies tell me much more, I have much recollection of Czech movies even up today. Usually at that time, the quality movies were taken from Czech literature. And I was familiar with Czech literature, so I knew what they were trying to convey to me and they did their job. They did convey to me a very nice [message], you know, that there's something else besides Germany; that Czechs are here to stay. And I felt what one of the earlier Czech patriots during the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, Karel Havlíček Borovský, said in Czech, 'Jsme a budeme' – 'We are and we are going to be.' That's a loose translation of the Czech nationalism defying the Austrian Monarchy. So, I used that against the German domination, which was in place there."

Where did you go to high school?

"I went to a high school in a small regional town called Plánice. Plánice was about a two-hour walk from the village where I lived. So I was quite a familiar figure to the countryside. I had to pass through a number of villages, everybody knew 'That's the American, that's Bobek from Těchonice who is going to high school.' And every fruit tree by the road, I knew them very well. So it was an adventure. I did not have a bicycle because it was difficult to obtain during the War. Even then my grandparents tried hard to find a bicycle, but somehow I preferred to walk. And a walk actually taught me something about perseverance: no matter what, or what weather, I will definitely go to school. During wintertime I would have to wake up by 5 o'clock; by 6 [o'clock] I would be on the road. I do particularly remember one winter, very early in the morning when it looked like this was not a day to go to school – grandmother and mother were looking out of the window and definitely saying no. But I would say yes, and I would start my journey to school... I got stuck very fast; I still could see our house, and I cried there because there was so much snow so I was falling in, and I had to get up, and [would fall] down again. But I dared to say, 'I am not going to go back and admit that they were right, I will go through this to the end.' I believe I have learned a lot about – which came to help me during the War and after the War – perseverance, don't give up."

For more on Robert Budway, visit his oral history profile at www.ncsml.org. 

New Transcripts Just In

Recording Voices & Documenting Memories is happy to welcome a new intern. For the past two months, Cecilia Greco has been producing transcripts of interviews with former Czech & Slovak political prisoners and their families. Watch the NCSML's oral history web pages over the weeks to come for the complete transcripts and, in the meantime, here is a taster of what to expect:

Jana Svehlova three weeks before her father's arrest

Jana Svehlova was interviewed in Washington, D.C. in 2010:

"My parents left Czechoslovakia in 1939. But they married in England – they met in England. My father was with the Royal Air Force – with the 311 Czechoslovak Squadron. And my mother managed to get to England as a domestic person. And her War duty was delivering milk to English homes. And all her life she complained about those dirty English women not washing those glass milk bottles properly."

So, both of your parents fled the Nazis?

"Yes, they fled the Nazis. And my father and mother met in Cardiff, because my mother went with her friends to an official Air Force Club in Cardiff. And she was still very sad because her boyfriend in Czechoslovakia told her he wouldn't marry her. But she was persuaded by her friends, and she went. And in walks a group of handsome Czechoslovak airmen. And one of them asked her to marry him – I mean, I'm sorry, to dance with him. And she said yes. And next, he asked her to lend him money for cigarettes. (Laughs) And next thing, they have a date. And then he asked her to marry him because he said, 'look, I'm going to get killed anyway. So why shouldn't a nice Czech girl get a good pension?' And so they married in May 1943. And I must admit, I was born December 1943."

So, when did you then return to Czechoslovakia?

"Well, my father couldn't wait to get back to Czechoslovakia. So in August 1945 – immediately after the War when they demobilized – he went back to Prague. And my mother did not want to return because she was from the Sudetenland, her first language was German, and she didn't have the best memories of Prague just before the War. So she wanted to stay in England, but my father wouldn't hear of it. So, first the families of people who fought with the Allies were flying back. But so many planes crashed that the Red Cross organized that the spouses - basically the wives and the children - would go by train and boat. So my mother and I then came by train to Czechoslovakia in 1945."

... Jana's father was arrested in December 1949, when she was 10 years old. Despite this, Jana says she still has good memories from childhood:

"I was never hungry. My mother told me, and I have lived with this – my mother complaining, not having money for example for coal. So, I know that one of the neighbors – we found out later that that particular neighbor was the one that was reporting on us to the Secret Police. But she was very nice to us. (Laughs) And she gave us money, or lent us money for coal. And also, when my mother was writing to the president and everybody else, you know, 'Let my husband out; he's been out there now five years; I think he's reeducated.' Because her first language was German, she was never sure about the Czech grammar. So this particular neighbor was also helping her with those letters. And I – after my mother died, she died when she was 92 in England – and I found she kept all the letters from my father from prison. All those 10 years, year-by-year. So I found those letters and it was kind of funny. Oh, and some of the letters she wrote to the president. And she also wrote a letter to the commandant of the labor camp, 'My husband has been there for seven years now; let him out. I'm sick, and my child needs a father.' And he wrote back, 'Your husband's behavior is not right. He is not reeducated and he plays cards.' Because sometimes when they were down in the mine, you know, the guards wouldn't go down there. So, somebody obviously must have said it that he played cards. (Laughs) My mother wrote back, 'Well, he was a gambler before he went to prison, and I guess the prison hasn't cured him yet.' (Laughs) So, they didn't let him out. Maybe because he was playing cards." (Laughs)

Visit http://www.ncsml.org/Content/Oral-Histories.aspx for more full-length transcripts over the months to come.

Interviewee Vladimir Krman In His Own Words

It is rare that we have an article in Slovak or Czech on this Recording Voices & Documenting Memories blog. But happily, that is just one of the things that this blog provides a platform for – especially when it is one of our interviewees who is the author:


Fred Tornil/ Vladimir Krman in Air Force uniform, 1949

Fred Tornil (aka Vladimir Krman) spoke to Recording Voices & Documenting Memories in January 2011. He recently contacted the NCSML to say that interest in Slovakia had led him to translate his profile into his mother tongue. In his correspondence with the museum he wrote:

“I sat down and spent a few evenings doing this literary ‘assignment’. I did modify some small details, but basically it is a "loose" translation of the original. I don't have a Slovak keyboard, so I typed it without the customary diacritics. People in the old country have no problem reading it…”

So here you have it, Fred Tornil in his own words, in his own tongue:

Vladimir Krman sa narodil roku 1929 v Bratislave. Tam studoval na Obchodnej akademii, lebo rodicia chceli, aby sa stal bankovym uradnikom, ale so studiom neskor skoncil a v 1948 vstupil k vojenskemu letectvu. Lietat zacal v 1946 roku v bratislavskom aeroklube na Dubravke a vo Vajnoroch. Ziskal niekolko kategorii uznania v plachtarstve i v parasutisme. Po absolvovani vojenskeho vycviku ako catar, neskor rotny a starsina, bol zaradeny do vycviku vojenskych pilotov v Piestanoch a na Troch Duboch pri Zvolene. Postupom casu bol podla sovietskeho vzoru povyseny na podporucika, potom na porucika. Ilegalne opustil Ceskoslovensko zaciatkom 1953 roku, ked, ako hovori, dostal sa do nesnadzi kvoli "politickej neaktivite". Bol tiez clenom leteckej akrobatickej skupiny. Vladimir hovori, ze by bol zbaveny funkcie ucitela lietania a teda i moznosti lietat, preto sa odhodlal k uletu.

Vladimir, koncom 1952 roku, spolu s bratrancom Jozefom Fleischhackerom a ich priatelom Gustavom Molnarom vymyslel plan ako opustit Ceskoslovensko. Hovori, ze plan uteku bol planovany v tanecnej sale Reduty v Bratislave, za zvukov Americkeho slagru Domino. A tak i pomenovali ich akciu “Operacia Domino”. Bolo dohodnute, ze ked Gustav bude mat funkciu “dozorneho straze,” Vladimir a Jozef za noci vklznu do hangara a pripravia lietadlo ku startu. Potom v skorych rannych hodinach odstartuju smerom do Rakuska, kde poziadaju o “azyl”. Moznost uteku nastala v piatok 13. marca 1953 v Piestanoch. Vladimir hovori, ze plan uteku prebiehol bez chyby, az na to, ze kratko po prelete Rakuskych hranic uzreli dva Ruske Mig-15-ky. Za stalej tmy sa im ale podarilo uniknut zmenou kurzu a nizkym letom.

Tito traja bezpecne doleteli do Graza, kde po “de-briefingu” mali tlacovu konferenciu a zverejnenie ich uteku. V priebehu 10 dni sa ocitli v Londyne, kde im k voli bezpecnosti britsky hostitelia navrhli zmenu mien. Vladimir si zvolil meno Frederick Tornil, ktore pouziva dodnes. Po jedom roku v Anglii, Vladimir emigroval do Kanady. Posobil tam ako instruktor na Torontskom letisku a zaroven pracoval v General Motors v Oshawe. V 1958 pre-emigroval do Spojenych Statov a usadil sa v Chicagskej oblasti. Pracoval v Rockwell-Standard Corporation, potom v Zenith Radio & Television a konecne v General Motors EMD v La Grange, kde posobil vyse 30 rokov. Ma licenciu “Obchodneho Pilota” a lietal z letiska “DuPage County Airport”, uz len iba zalubou. Ozenil sa s jeho niekdajsiou laskou z bratislavskeho aeroklubu, Ruzenou. Za Dubcekovej ery prisla do USA so synom Romanom, (ktory neskorsie sluzil u Americkeho Vojenskeho letectva - USAF). Vladimir a Ruzena maju dvoch dalsich synov Martina a Daniela. Vladimir hovori, ze rad hraval fotbal, lyzoval a zucastnoval sa zabav v Slovenskom atletickom klube (Slovak A.A.) v Chicagu. Dnes sa venuje roznym opravam okolo domu, aut a motoriek.

Vladimirovi rodicia chceli, aby bol bankovym uradnikom a nie pilotom:

“Rodicia boli velmi proti tomu, nechceli aby som bol pilotom i napriek tomu, ze som zacal lietat uz v 1946, skoro po vojne. Vstupil som do plachtarskeho odboru aeroklubu Bratislava, dosiahol som podmienku stupna "C" a tiez jednu podmienku na strieborne "C". Popri plachteni, zacal som parasutisticky vycvik a vykonal 6 zoskokov. Mal som teda prijatelnu kvalifikaciu k vojenskemu pilotnemu vycviku.”

Vladimir spomina na podmienky u Ceskoslovenskeho letectva, kratko po 2. svetovej vojne:

“Zacinali sme s tym co zostalo po prechode fronty, teda koristny material, klzaky, vetrone a cvicne lietadla pozivane nemcami. V tych rokoch, ked sme zacinali skakat padakmi, boli to pouzite vojenske kamuflazove padaky v ktorych si mysi urobili hniezda. Museli sme napred "zaflakovat" diery, nez sme ich mohli pouzit k zoskokom z americkeho DC-3. Lietadla Dakota a Piper Cub, ktore nam boli darovane nadaciou UNRRA, (United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration) bola velka pomoc v dobe nudze! Tieto mali este zelene bojove zafarbenie. Letecky vycvik u vojenskeho letectva i napriek viacerym havariam starsich lietadiel prebiehal prudkym tempom. Letecka osnova v 48-mom roku bola anglicka z Royal Air Force. Nasi instruktori boli zo zapadneho i z vychodneho frontu s bohatymi bojovymi skusenostami.”

For the full translation of Vladimir's profile, visit http://www.ncsml.org/Oral-History/Chicago/20110322/99/Krman-Vladimir.aspx.

Oral History Transcripts Online

Stalin Monument in Letná park prior to its destruction in 1962

This fall semester, George Mason University History and New Media student Misha M. Griffith has been working to transcribe a number of the interviews gathered by Recording Voices & Documenting Memories so far. To mark the publication of the first interview transcript on Otomar Hájek's profile page, here is a previously unbroadcast snippet from his interview which caught our eye at the NCSML:

"I was a member of the first university workers’, no… students’ brigade to build the Stalin statue!"

You worked on building it?

"Well, yes. We went there and we played cards all day; we managed to do it. And when they were taking it down, I wanted to volunteer to be in the first students’ brigade to take down the statue, but my mother talked me out of it."

...The statue was built in ’52, wasn't it?

"I don't remember. My memory of the time is… I don’t remember... I was still at the university. I was at the university from ’49 until ’53. It must have been built in ’52, or begun to be built. It took a long time."

Could you describe for me the process? That’s such a monster statue. I’m just curious about what the whole engineering setup was like there, and how it was done. How was it organized?

"The statue itself was called the 'food line,' which looked as if a line of people - okay, I don’t have to describe that. The foundations were therefore elongated, and since it was supposed to be solid stone, the foundation had to be extremely solid. An extra railway line was built from the nearest spur to bring in these stones, [each] of a size roughly two yards cubic. And unloaded there and then transported. Some of the sculptural work was carried out in the original situation, and then some of it was finished here."

Was it a big group of people, or how many... Were there hundreds of people?

"There were hundreds of people. There were hundreds of people. The most interesting thing is that the builder, the artist who conceived it, committed suicide immediately afterwards."

Upon graduating from Charles University in 1953 (and waving goodbye to student labor brigades), Otomar worked in a range of research positions, including one at a computer science facility in Prague:



For Otomar Hájek's complete profile (and now the full transcript of his interview as well) visit the NCSML's oral history web pages.